2006/05/08 Parks and Recreation Commission Minutes ROHNERT PARK PARKS AND RECREATION COMMISSION MINUTES
May 8, 2006
The Rohnert Park Parks and Recreation Commission met this date at 7:30 p.m. for a special meeting at
the Rohnert Park city offices, 6750 Commerce Boulevard, Rohnert Park. The meeting was called to order
at 7:35 p.m. with Chair Hansen presiding.
ROLL CALL Present: (6) Commissioners Bird, Black, Butler, Coleman, Hansen,
and Stevens
Absent: (1) Commission Griffin(excused)
Also present for all or part of the meeting were Recreation Services Manager Guy Miller,
Assistant City Manager Dan Schwarz, Director of Community Development Ron Bendorff, and
City Engineer Darrin Jenkins.
APPROVAL OF MINUTES—Referring to the April 17th minutes under Old Business,Park Audit, the
Commission discussed the committee that was created and requested that the two committee
members appointed, Commissioners Bird and Black,be added to the minutes. Upon motion by
Commissioner Butler and second by Commissioner Black, the minutes, with the above addition,
for the meeting of April 17th were unanimously approved as submitted.
UNSCHEDULED PUBLIC APPEARANCE/PUBLIC COMMENT-None
SCHEDULED PUBLIC APPEARANCE/PUBLIC COMMENT-None
OLD BUSINESS
Review of Actions of March 20th Meeting Concerning the University District and Southeast Specific Plan
Areas— Chair Hansen reported after the Commission's April meeting he met with Assistant City
Manager Dan Schwarz and Director of Community Development Ron Bendorff. They went over
the discussions the Commission had, and he gave them a synopsis that he had written on what had
happened at the meeting. He passed out copies to Commission, and a copy is on file with the
original copy of these minutes. He referred to last paragraph of the synopsis and asked if there
were any comments and whether the Commission thought this was a fair synopsis from their point
of view.
Commissioner Black said they may have all had different perceptions but concurred that the main
reason they felt they needed to rescind the motions was because they had been presented with
some conflicting information.
Chair Hansen stated the main feeling they had at their April meeting regarding the Southeast and
University District developments was they didn't have all the information they should so that they
could properly evaluate the proposals, and this was the reason they felt they needed to rescind the
.-� two votes.
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Manager Miller pointed out that the first part of tonight's agenda is to review the actions of the
March 20th meeting, and several staff members are present who have some input. Chair Hansen
said he would first like each commissioner to state their understanding of what had happened.
Assistant City Manager Schwarz asked if the chair would allow a few comments from staff and
the chair agreed. ACM Schwarz advised that what the chair is proposing is not advantageous to
keep them on the correct path procedurally. After some discussion the Chair agreed but first
directed the Commission to the March minutes to clarify what is on the record. Commissioner
Black suggested that the Commission hear what staff has to say.
ACM Schwarz said it is his understanding that they have a couple of documents stating what
happened at their March meeting,the minutes and a memo from Director Bendorff. He suggested
that the Commission decide whether the minutes and the memo are correct, and if they are,then
they should abide by that public record.
The Chair said his synopsis differs from the public record,but it is from his viewpoint. He said he
doesn't believe that either interpretation differs from the minutes. He said he believes that several
corrections are supposed to be made to the regular minutes. Manager Miller clarified that the
corrections are scheduled for discussion at the Commission's May 15th meeting. He reported he
did meet with staff, and the secretary's record of the meeting was checked and the minutes
coincide with her notes.
Commissioner Black said she doesn't remember anything too specific that needs to be corrected in
the minutes.
ACS Schwarz said the way this item is posted on the agenda is that the Commission should first
decide whether the March minutes are correct. Director Bendorff s memo states how he
interpreted what happened at that meeting.
Director Bendorff referred to his memo dated 5/4/06 which was distributed to the Commission and
states'his interpretation of the summary of actions by the Commission. (A copy of the memo is
attached to the original of these minutes.)The first was to agree the amount of land that was set
aside as parkland and the second is the location of the parks. He said all of the park credits can't
be determined at this time but will be done at a later time. He referred to the memo and the
difference between a specific plan and a typical subdivision on residentially-zoned land. He
advised the city doesn't want to lock itself into anything specific at this time because park
development could be 5-10 years down the road. Also,the land will be assessed at a greater value
in the future which would be beneficial to the city.
Chair Hansen said one of his questions is the amount of land that is to be required because they
have seen different amounts over the last year. There are discrepancies from one conversation to
another, and the Commission is at a loss to know what numbers they are talking about. Director
Bendorff said when he first came to Commission in April 2005,he was trying to get a statement
from them that the proposed parks are consistent with the city's General Plan. Since then, they
have come with more specific plans which changed from the original proposals. He referred the
Commission to the specific plans that are attached to the Chair Hansen's list of questions. (A copy
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of the questions and plans are attached to the original of these minutes.) The Chair asked if these
plans are different than those on the City's website. Director Bendorff said probably because they
have been refined since then. He referred to the March minutes when he had clarified the
Commission's purpose and said he agrees with what is stated in the minutes.
Director Bendorff stated the numbers have been fine tuned since the Commission first looked at
the plans in April 2005. He will be coming back to them for a third stage with more park specifics.
He referred to the memo and the approval of park improvement credits and said this is the
procedure that will be followed.
Commissioner Black said she wished they had all this information before they had made their
motion. ACM Schwarz said that falls under Item B on tonight's agenda, and the Commission can
look at this and come back at their next meeting. He advised the Commission needs to determine
what happened on March 20th and whether they want to unwind what happened. Commissioner
Black said she would like clarifications on the numbers because there was a lot of confusion when
Senior Planner Rich came to the meeting.
Commissioner Butler said the Commission had a few questions from the March meeting, and then
in April Senior Planner Rich gave them different numbers. There seemed to be two versions of the
requirements, and he would like clarification.
Director Bendorff referred to the questions that Commissioner Black had submitted,page 2,
regarding the proposed park acres for the University District and his answer regarding the total
number of dedicated park acreage. (A copy of the questions and answers is attached to the original
copy of these minutes.)
Kevin Pohlson,representing Brookfield Homes, the developer for the University District, said
those numbers have already been changed so they are at 16.5 acres which is about 2 acres short of
what is required. Director Bendorff stated that according to the General Plan they have already
fulfilled their requirement. According to the Subdivision Ordinance they could add a little.
Director Bendorff stated the Southeast Specific Plan is required to have 5-8 acres and they have
proposed 5 acres so they are a few shy. The General Plan requires 6.54 acres and the Subdivision
Ordinance is 7.77 acres so can get approximately 1.5 park acre credits. Chair Hansen clarified that
the difference is based on the multi-family/single family split, and Director Bendorff concurred.
Chair Hansen said in the University District there was going to be a large signage at the entrance
to the plaza. Director Bendorff said that is not being counted towards park credits.
The Chair asked the commissioners if they believe this is the same information they had on March
20. Commissioners Black and Butler said no. The Chair said if they go back and try to reconcile
the minutes of the meeting and their recollections, that there is a difference.
ACM Schwarz clarified that the Commission needs to determine what happened at their March
20th meeting and the numbers. In looking back he doesn't see a discrepancy between the
Commission minutes and Director Bendorff's memo of what happened.
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Commissioner Black said she thought there was a document that would clarify the March minutes
and the number of acres. She thinks there is lack of clarity on what plan they were approving. The
Chair asked the Commission if in March they thought what they were recommending to the City
Council was what was the very best for these parks.
Commissioner Coleman responded that as a new commissioner he believed that they were making
their recommendation on the information that they had at the time. When they met with Senior
Planner Rich, there were a lot of different numbers coming out and that made him think twice
about whether he had made the best recommendation.
Commissioner Butler said he thought they were making a step in the approval process, and they
would be getting the park plans back for more fine tuning. When they had their April meeting,he
felt that Senior Planner Rich was telling them that they had made a different motion. He feels that
was just a step in the process.
Commissioner Stevens said he missed the April meeting and he thought in March they were
making a recommendation for general placement of the parks, and he didn't see it as a final
recommendation to the City Council. He was very pleased with the general placement of the parks
and felt that their questions had been answered. He thought the specifics would come later.
Chair Hansen said his thoughts were similar to Commissioner Stevens' and that the size and -�
amenities would be decided at a later date but found out they were locked in to a specific size of
the park.
Mr. Pohlson said he wants to make sure what Brookfield Homes is proposing is very clear. He
stated he made the March presentation and believes he was very clear about the amount of acreage
and what the improvements would be. He had included preliminary costs of improvements but
planned on coming back to the Commission with the specific improvements. He thought the size
and placement of the parks had been determined at the March meeting and emphasized that he was
very specific at that meeting. It was his understanding that they had gotten a recommendation to
go to the City Council with the size and placement of the parks. Improvements and cost estimates
will be solidified in the future, and the number of park credits will be finalized.
Chair Hansen said the clarity problem was not due to Mr. Pohlson's presentation but was an issue
on the Commission's side regarding what their role is and where they are in the process. At their
April meeting this was discussed and they didn't think that they were doing their jobs as
commissioners. Mr. Pohlson asked what he means by that, and Chair Hansen stated that when
Senior Planner Rich told them that the document they gave was going all the way with the size
and placement of the parks. The Chair said the Commission believed they hadn't done what was
best for the community for these parks. Mr.Pohlson stated it was discussed at the meeting that
they would be coming back with specifics on park improvements.
Director Bendorff said he thought what the Commission had done in March was approve the '1
locations of the parks, the sizes of the parks in acres and agreed that they were willing to look at
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credits for the additional acres that the developers will be required to provide. He will include this
in his report that the Commission has looked at the sizes and locations of the parks
ACM Schwarz assured the developers that there hadn't been any violation of the Brown Act at the
Commission's March meeting. When Senior Planner Rich was asked to come to the April meeting
she looked at some documents and gave them some park acreage requirements. In the absence of
anything else than what is in the minutes,that is what would be taken to the City Council.
The Chair said the problem was how the Commission interpreted what they had done and their
responsibility.
Commissioner Bird said that his recollection of what happened at the March meeting is pretty
much the same as what is stated in Director Bendorffs memo. Initially he wasn't very happy that
he missed the April meeting,but now he thinks it just caused more confusion. He said he thinks
they approved what they needed to in March and he's happy with their recommendation.
Commissioner Black said she understood what happened at the March meeting but started seeing
some red flags from questions that arose in the April meeting, and it got very confusing. She said
she is comfortable with the votes she made in March if her understanding of the facts and
interpretation is correct. She said there wasn't anyone there to explain the differences that
occurred between April 2005 and March 2006. She is comfortable with her March votes but isn't
sure what was decided with park credits. She still believes that the number of park acres being
allotted in the Southeast Specific Plan are too low.
Commissioner Black asked how they are to move forward. ACM Schwarz said if the Commission
agrees on the substantive issues in March then they can move forward. If they have questions or
need more information, they can come back at their regular May meeting for more discussion. He
urged them to take advantage of the city staff with the City Engineer's and the Community
Development Director's input. The Commission needs to come to some resolution on whether
they agree with the existing motion made in March or if there are changes that need to be made.
Chair Hansen said what he has heard is that there are differences on the degree and not on the gist
of what happened in March. He said he has heard different opinions from the commissioners.
Commissioner Butler said he doesn't have a lot of confusion, and he feels that what was
recommended in March was correct and they can move forward.
Commissioner Butler asked Director Bendorff for clarification on the park credits and whether
those will be determined in the future. The Director said yes, the Commission has determined the
placement and acreage of the parks with the credits being determined in the future.
Mr. Pohlson pointed out on the University District specific plan map a linear park that would be
on land currently owned by the school district. He stated the district may dedicate some land to the
city, and the University District developer would improve the area. Commissioner Stevens asked
if the University District will be built out in 7 years, and Director Bendorff said he believes that is
their goal. Commissioner Stevens asked whether the numbers are projected correctly so they will
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have enough funds to be built in 7 years. Director Bendorff said the lands will be dedicated as
parkland so that won't be a problem.
Chair Hansen asked about the water detention areas and whether there is a valve system available
so that if they aren't working as projected, they could be turned off. City Engineer Jenkins said
there are ways of doing that,but the reason they are asking for flood detention areas is they don't
want to make problems worse for the other residents of the city. He stated the detention areas
don't have to be in city parks. He would be reluctant for the Commission to think that if this
doesn't work they can be shut off in several years so he wants them to be comfortable with their
decision.
Chair Hansen said he understands that another community had a detention area in a park which
has made the park unusable because it is too wet and doesn't dry out properly. He asked how we
know that the predictions the developers are making are correct. City Engineer Jenkins said he
doesn't know what the Commission or developer has discussed for thevwater detention areas,but it
would be helpful to have the Commission decide what they think is reasonable or not. He wants to
hear from the Commission whether they believe this would be acceptable. He mentioned that for
an area to be unusable for 3 hours in 10 years does not seem unreasonable,but the Commission
will have to determine that.
The City Engineer said that the University District is proposing some storm drains in addition to
the storm water detention areas. Mr. Pohlson said at this point they are proposing a detention —�
basin, which isn't related to a park, in 2 areas, and they are trying to avoid the parks. They will
include one in a park if the city thinks it is prudent,but they are trying to avoid that. City Engineer
Jenkins said that the detention basins may work fine in most years,but in a 100 year storm they
may need additional detention basins that could be placed in a park. He said he isn't that familiar
with the Southeast proposal but this would be the Commission's decision.
Chair Hansen asked about the detention basins planned in the University District and whether
there would be water there all of the time. City Engineer Jenkins said that there may always be
some water in the basin due to overwatering,broken pipes,washing cars, etc. The water would be
treated and city staff is looking at plans used in Santa Rosa. Mr. Pohlson said they are working
with the Water Quality Board on this matter and will be working with the city so that there would
be landscaping around them to make them look attractive. The Chair asked if they could be used
as informal park areas. The City Engineer said they haven't decided whether they will be fenced
or not,but people may still get into the areas just like they do in the existing city creeks. He said
there are low flow systems to keep the water moving so there wouldn't be any stagnate water.
The Commission agreed they were satisfied with the University District specific plans and didn't
have any further questions.
Commissioner Butler asked if the park in the Southeast Specific Plan will be improved, and
Director Bendorff responded that the city doesn't want to take raw land, and if the park is 5 acres,
that park credits will make up the difference. '1
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Commissioner Stevens asked if the city has a specific time before they open wet fields. Manager
Miller said there is no set time, the fields are looked at to see if they are playable and a decision is
made based on that. Manager Miller advised the policy won't apply at this park because it isn't a
designated play field.
Chair Hansen asked about the water detention area and whether the Commission is satisfied with
including it in the park. Commissioner Butler said he believes the park wouldn't be used at this
time anyway, and they have spent too much time on this matter since people wouldn't be using the
park.
Commissioner Stevens asked about the water flow and whether it will be away from Valley House
Drive. Engineer Mark Von Hagen for the Southeast Plan responded that Petaluma Hill Road acts
as a dam for this piece of land, and they are only proposing a piece of land that will take the water
during a peak period of a storm. The detention area would only be affected when the drains in the
area cannot handle all the storm water and then it would back into the park for no more than a 3
hour period. Commissioner Stevens asked about placement of the homes on Petaluma Hill Road
and what way the water will flow. Mr. Von Hagen said it will flow from Petaluma Hill Road
towards Valley House Drive.
Commissioner Black said she hopes that the city engineer will have a chance to review the storm
detention area to see that it does what it is supposed to do will have an opportunity to review this
with the developers to make sure they have the best drainage possible. Commissioner Stevens said
that he lives in M section and the water seems to funnel at the end of each court so they end up
with a large amount of water in each court. Some discussion followed.
Discussion and Consideration of Statement of Position on the University District and Southeast Specific
Plan Areas - Commissioner Stevens said he is satisfied with what they did in March.
Commissioner Bird said he agrees with Commissioner Butler, and he is satisfied with what they
recommended in March. He agrees that as long as the city engineer agrees with the system and
how it should work he has no problems with that.
Chair Hansen said when he first looked at this plan he thought it would be 5.8 acres. He was
happy with that until he found out that .8 acres is a detention area and he isn't happy with that. He
agrees that they need to make sure that the drainage works as it is supposed to and noted that at the
March meeting they were told you won't be able to tell the drainage area in the park from the rest.
He hopes that is true.
The Chair asked if there was any more discussion on the statement of position for the University
District and the Southeast specific plan areas. Manager Miller asked if the Commission was going
to use the minutes of this meeting as their statement of position to the City Council or if they want
to draft a formal recommendation. ACM Schwarz advised they will need to approve tonight's
minutes at their meeting next week because the City Council will be taking this matter up at their
May 231d meeting.
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Commissioner Black asked if they should restate so it clearly says what the Commission is
recommending. The Chair said he thinks the minutes will reflect that.
Consideration to Rescind the March 20t Action on the University District and Southeast Specific Plan
Areas—Chair Hansen stated he is in favor of more park acreage and feels he was misled on that
for the Southeast Plan. If given an opportunity, he would change his vote. He also has reservations
on the University District and barely agrees with that proposal.
Discussion followed on the consideration to rescind the Commission's March 20`h action. ACM
Schwarz referred to his memo and the correct way to proceed. The Commission agreed they did
not wish to rescind their March motions.
Chair Hansen thanked the developers for attending tonight's meeting.
NEW BUSINESS
Select Representative for Civic Center Design Outreach Meetings—Manager Miller said he had been
asked to see if there was a commission member who would be willing to sit on this committee.
Director Bendorff informed the Commission that there won't be a meeting until June. He advised
it is not a committee,but they want to be careful so there isn't a quorum of any city commissions.
The Commission discussed naming a representative and asked how many meetings would be held.
Director Bendorff replied there will be three meetings—2 Wednesdays and 1 Saturday over a -�
couple of months. Commissioner Butler offered to be the representative. Commissioners Black
and Stevens offered to be alternates.
MATTERS FROM/FOR COMMISSIONERS
Recreation Department Sponsorship Program - Commissioner Coleman said he sent an e-mail to
Commissioner Black regarding the park partnership program, and he would like to rejuvenate this
discussion. The last he heard was that they needed to get a legal opinion on what would be
allowed. He advised he has a couple of people he would like to get back to. Manager Miller
advised this matter will be on the next meeting's agenda.
Creek Committee- Commissioner Butler said on April 26 he met with the Creek Committee, which
included representatives from the City Council, Sonoma State University, Water Agency, and
Planning Commission. As part of his homework he needs a position statement from the
Commission. He read through a preliminary statement he had prepared, asked for feedback from
the Commission and whether they agreed with it. Chair Hansen said his only concern would be if
there are any fish in the creeks that need to be protected-nature comes first. Commissioner Butler
said he will add that to the statement. The Commission agreed that they feel comfortable with the
statement.
Skateboard Park- Commissioner Stevens said he read in the newspaper that an individual had set aside
some money($100,000) for a skateboard park. Manager Miller stated this came up in previous
discussions before he was recreation manager. Commissioner Black said she thinks the amount
may be incorrect but believes the money is from Boards and Blades.
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City Creeks - Commissioner Stevens asked about the city creeks and stated there is problem with rats
breeding in them and wondered if that will be discussed by the Creek Committee. Manager Miller
said this would be the responsibility of the Sonoma County Mosquito and Vector Control and
advised they have a very good website that gives good suggestions on how to help alleviate a rat
problem. He suggested the commissioners visit the website for more information. Commissioner
Butler said the Committee may discuss that, and he will follow up.
Commissioner Bird said he's noticed the creeks are a mess and suggested it would be a good idea
to have a community clean-up to clean out the shopping carts, etc.
Commission's Role- Commissioner Black said she thinks it is important for the Commission to realize
that their role is important and they have important decisions to make.
She requested that when the planning staff has materials for them that they give it to them prior to
their meetings so the commissioners can come prepared and have time to research the material.
She believes this has been a problem in the park development that they have been working on for
the last two months, and they need more time to process and research any materials from the
planning dept.
Commissioner Griffin—Commissioner Black said she talked to Commissioner Griffin last night and he
told her he had the transplant. He would love hearing from other commissioners and has plenty of
time to devote to park planning and park and recreation matters.
Commissioner Stevens—Commissioner Black congratulated Commissioner Stevens who was honored for
20 years of service on the Commission at the Commissioners' Dinner last Friday night.
Commissioner Stevens stressed that they are layman in park planning and that city staff has the
expertise. He stated there is a learning curve for the commissioners, and they should continue to
ask questions when they aren't sure.
ADJOURNMENT -There being no further business before the Commission,the meeting was adjourned
at 9:38 p.m.
Chair Hansen Guy Miller
Recreation Services Manager
�Cwn�
Secretary
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